Wednesday, July 18, 2007

Wednesday Roundup

The LA Daily News says that Floyd Landis may be lots of things right now, but bored isn't one of them as he promotes his book throughout SoCal this week and apparently it's no more Mr. Nice Guy anymore:

"I don't want people to just believe me because they like me or the way I smile at them," he said. "I want them to know the facts of the case and base their opinion on that. ... That's why I wrote the book."

The Daily Mail
cites athletes who think that the laws in place don't' necessarily apply to them. wonders nicely why Lemond injects himself into every doping controversy.

The PressZoom
blurbs Floyd Landis' upcoming visit to UC Riverside

Getting updates

The LandisCase Wiki is getting some updates, but it's missing a discussion of peak identification, dealing with retention time matches and positive controls.


Admire Lemond / Better to get a flat than to get shot fires at Landis:
First, before talking about Greg LeMond's appearance on the "Vélo Club" after the Tour stage finishing in Briançon yesterday, a little point about Floyd Landis... I wasn't sure I wanted to mention that at all. But well, his attacks on Greg are becoming sickening. And I think with the last interview he did on NPR, he crossed a new line. I mentioned here that Landis already qualified the call that his manager made to Greg as a "bad joke". He now insists, and goes farther... characterizing Greg as "clearly insane" and borderline insinuating that Greg could have made up the childhood abuse and/or that he should be over it now. Highlight of this trash:
Landis: "Look, if that happened to Greg Lemond, that's a terrible thing. But he's 50 years old now, and he has a problem with lying, and he never should have been there."

Rant looks at Sinkewitz, and sees "an all-too-familiar pattern."; Many insightful comments.

Irish KC doesn't agree with our negative assessment of one of his posts, and calls us "Belief but Assume".

vfish thinks that Floyd Landis is the gift that keeps on giving.

Moxy at Podium Cafe works at Google and posts about Floyd Landis' appearance there last Friday.

Cycleicious gives us some link love.

Red Asphalt Ride plugs book signing at UC Riverside tomorrow.

Cycling Fans Anonymous is feeling slimed by the KPCC interview with Landis because of the Lemond comments.

JoeSchmoe bemoans LNDD's apparent involvement with Fertonani and possibly Sinkewitz.

Velogal is smelling LNDD at work as well.

Coach Joe English upbraids Versus for offering the possibility of nine tour wins in a row by an American.

Jarred Gilker finally figured out to get pictures off his phone, and has one of Landis in Central Park.

Pommi looks at the NPR interview and DPF flamage, and concludes

You stick your head out, you get whacked. Welcome to the real world. So get over it. Ride your bike.

At DPF, the people who would be shocked by Landis' retaliatory attacks on Lemond complain they are shocking. An attempt to return to the unrebutted scientific argument will probably go nowhere, because the he said/he said with Lemond is more titillating.


Unknown said...

Apparently Sinkowitz (T-Mobile) has tested positive for Testerone - before his B sample has been tested...

Is anyone concerned that all of the 'positive doping' tests being announced now are about testerone? Seems kind of odd. Almost like the doping agency's are trying to prove that everyone is using testerone.

Just my observation and thoughts

GMR said...


I just saw the article on Velonews about Patrick Sinkewitz. My first thought is that LNDD has not changed its "testing" procedures at all! I wonder if the Mickey Mouse ears are still on the isoprime 2. Looks like the whole defense team for Floyd has more potential clients.

Unknown said...

A couple other things to think about:

1. the AP reported Sinkewitz was 6 times over the legal limit. I would assume that means his T/Epi ratio was 24 to 1....Whoa...Is that even possible?

2. Where is T-Mobile's support of this guy? One, his B smaple hasn't been confirmed. Heck, his test was from a sample June 8, yet now it's July 18 and it's just being announced? It only took 3 days to declare Floyd guilty..

Two, if T-Mobiles drug testing regime is so 'tough', why didn't they figure something was wrong with Sinkewitz's before putting him on the Tour team. I mean, this was a month before the tour.

Three, if they are so 'confident' in their doping program and their riders are clean, why aren't they screaming something has to be wrong and we are standing behind our rider until the case runs it's course? I mean, Stapleton has pretty much already fired this guy.

Seems like Floyd is the only guy willing to stand up to the System. T-Mobile seems to be bending already to the powers that be.


Unknown said...

Oh yeah, one more thing. Apparently German Public TV pulled their coverage of the Tour. They didn't even wait for B sample confirmation. What the riders need is for Sinkewitz B sample to come back negative to prove the testing isn't always correct and give the riders a chance to say, see, we aren't the always the bad guys.

What would the German TV say to the public if this happened? Ooppss, sorry about that.....

Unknown said...

WRT Sinkewitz, unless he personally asked for the information about his A-Sample to be released, why do we even know about it???

Unknown said...

Have to agree with Michael - is such a high ration possible in a functioning athlete? Also, would appear that T-Mobile does not have much confidence in its anti-doping measures; if they did, then they would have some data/material to stand on to support him.

I may have mnissed it, but does anyone know who is doing the Tour's testing this year? Unless there has been a shake up at the lab formerly known as LNDD, I would be shocked if it is being used.
Pete Crosby

Unknown said...

I suppose the only way a rider could ptove himself clear would be for him to have and extra 2 samples taken at the same time and pay for those samples to go to another facility and be tested (assuming I am not knowingly doping of course). If I was a professional rider and my career depended on a test from an unreliable lab, I would consider the expense an investment in my future. If contracdictory results arise it would help prove ones own innocence.

Pesty said...

I'd actually be extremely surprised if LNDD was not doing the testing.

Having another lab perform the testing would admit that there was a problem to begin with, and that's not something you are going to see WADA, ASO, or AFLD do at any point. I'd say that regardless of the outcome of the USADA hearing and any CAS appeals, LNDD will still be doing all testing for ASO events and WADA/AFLD will still not admit that there was ever a problem.

DBrower said...

Fine idea, but you can't get another lab to test them for you. That would violate WADA lab "ethics", and nothing but a WADA lab can do the test.



Mike Solberg said...

I think Sink's positive test was from early June, not during the Tour, so I would assume it was the German lab, not LNDD.

I think I read somewhere that the highest natural rates were like 15:1 or 20:1, so 25:1 is very fishy. I think his rate would be that high if he took oral exo-t and then got unlucky and was tested very soon afterward. Or they messed up the test (but that could never happen, right?). It will be interesting to see the B sample.

bostonlondontokyo said...

I've read the transcript from Floyd's NPR interview, and frankly, my withering support for Floyd is done - I cannot ethically support this man anymore, considering how he has taken no responsibility for what occured at the arbitration concerning LeMond. I know, I know, it's about the science, but to now go so far as to paint LeMond as a 'man who needs help'? I will certainly still read TBV, but my heart and morality says that Floyd is insensitive and thoughtless. These are not the traits that anyone should want to admire or emmulate, and certainly not the mettle of a TDF winner.

me said...

I was so hoping Jens Voigt would win today's stage which German TV wasn't showing. To me, it seems utterly hypocritical of the media to take an anti-doping stand, given that the media are the same people looking for (and possibly paying for) leaks and happy to release every scrap of info they can possibly get about a positive drug test. It seems to me that the anti-doping organizations make their money off positive drug tests, as that is evidence they use to call for futher funding. The media also make money off positive drug tests, as it helps them sell more papers and get higher ratings. Both sides have a stake in demonizing the riders and making it look like doping is widespread. Nobody really seems to care too much about the rights of the individual rider. Everybody just makes money off him and then throws him away at the first sign of trouble.

Citisin said...

Sinkewitz maybe 24:1, but it's not as high as Matthias Kessler's 85:1.

Unknown said...

Found a hint on what lab is being used for the Tour. Today's New York Times on-line has an article "After Drug Tests, No Riders Ruled Out" that indicates that the urine tests are sent "to a laboratory in Paris".

Of interest is that Rasmussen trains at altitude in Mexico, as he did when he was a mountain biker.

Article indicates that 51 riders from 6 teams were tested on Monday and 53 from 6 teams on July 10th. On the latter day T-Mobile was tested. Wonder if Sinkewitz was among them?
Pete Crosby

Milka said...

I think here is a little bit confusion. A T/E ratio of 24 is unlikely "all natural", but if someone ingests synthetical testosterone, dependent on the time and amount, T/E ratios of 200 were seen in studies and doping tests.
The tests Pete is referring to, were blood tests, the UCI is looking for hematocrit, hemoglobin and reticulocytes. It´s a so called helth test, if your levels are above/below the allowed limits, then you have to stop for 15 days. It´s not a doping test, because the values are not sufficient to proof (blood)doping. They are only indirect markers and can be affected by a lot of things (Dehydration, medication, diarrhea...)
Even if USADA tried to make us think testosterone has a major effect in the increase of HCT, it´s not that much in the small amounts you take for "micro-dosing".

Unknown said...

what responsibility do you want floyd to take for something he didn't do? he's apologized, stated it was a bad joke gone horribly wrong, fired will. what would you like to see him do?

in regards to lemond needing help, i'm not so sure floyd is wrong. how is it greg seems to be the "priest" who always gets to listen to the confessions of other cyclists, especially floyd, who doesn't even know him? does lemond have that quality that makes people just want to bare their souls to him? i think the problem is that he lies when there is something in it for him and that's a problem he needs to address. i will never believe floyd confessed to greg, essentially a stranger, IF he did indeed use PEDs.


Ken ( said...


I have to agree with what Pat said at 4:49PM. I wish Floyd had used more tact but Greg does have a problem. It simply doesn't make sense that ANY athlete, guilty or innocent, would just call up Greg and confess to doping if they didn't even know Greg to begin with -- especially if they are doing a full court press everywhere else declaring their innocence. There is no way to put it but to say Greg is lying.

As far as personalities go, bostonlondon, I don't think many TDF winners can raise up to the standards you demand. This issue is not about personalities, it is about the science. Whether or not Landis is the choirboy you want doesn't matter. It is painfully obvious that there our multiple very major issues that cast very serious doubt about the validity of the science in case against Landis.

In the end this is all about the science.

cat2bike said...

Thank you, Pat. I'm tired of Floyd taking heat on LeMond's problems!

And I'm surprised that T-Mobile hasn't pulled out their tests, too.
And I don't believe any A test, leaked to the media. Patrick is going into surgery; he's only 26yrs old, and the poor guy said "why me???" I wonder if he has the financial means to defend himself, like Floyd. Nothing has changed, he's getting dumped by his team, the press thinks he's guilty, and he has to prove he's innocent; and the B test hasn't been done LNDD....

bostonlondontokyo said...

Ken and Pat - yes, I fully agree that at this point it is all about the science. I have faith in the many view points that TBV provides, and through extensive reading, I've come to certain conclusions about the case - mainly, that we will never know what went on between Greg and Landis. I simply feel that Landis' excuses about 'bad jokes' (ie, his internet threat to LeMond), the phone call(s), what have you - has gone too far for me. And I have to thank TBV for inadvertantly making me see a different side of this situation. That's the power of information. Yes, yes - it's the science, and science shall set him free.


cat2bike said...

I also agree that Floyd might have used more "tact"; but everytime a microphone is in his face, he's being asked about Greg LeMond and his feelings. I hate to sound non-compassionate, but I'm getting tired of him being asked questions about Greg's problems too! So I can't imagine how Floyd feels!

me said...

I don't know that I'd say that Lemond is straight-up lying. I don't believe for a minute that Floyd confessed to Greg. I do think Greg had something in mind that he wanted to hear, and he was probably looking for that, reading between the lines for that. Who knows how these doping conversations actually go between cyclists - if it's all implication and innuendo?

I think if Floyd said anything at all remotely related to doping, Greg might have read into that waht he wanted to hear, interpreting it differently than Floyd meant it. And then Greg and USADA ran with his interpretation. If Floyd rhetorically asked something along the lines of "what would confession achieve?" Greg might have heard that and taken it to be a confession, or a desire to confess, even though Floyd didn't mean it as such.

I can understand why Floyd is annoyed at Greg inserting himself into this issue way back in the beginning. If I were in Floyd's shoes, I'd be angry too. I believe Floyd when he says he didn't confess. I also think Lemond believes himself when he says that Floyd confessed. I would guess that other cyclists in a similar situation would avoid contact with Lemond, for fear of how he will interpret anything they say.

Anonymous said...

I'm not a psychologist but I knew someone once who was a pathological liar (or narcissist)and claimed was molested as a child. Not sure what proof Lemond has about his alleged molestion but it appears he's using it to get attention at Floyd's expense. The lying about Floyd/Lance could be seen as trying to impress people or make himself look better than them. Anyway I can relate to what Landis is saying.....