Wednesday, March 12, 2008

Wednesday Roundup

The SunHerald hypes a Martin Dugard piece in that purportedly reveals his true opinions on Floyd Landis' guilt or innocence. Here's the link to the (whole?) story:

...In "Doubting Floyd," Dugard, who has covered the Tour de France since 1999, reveals his startling conclusions about the man who rode headlong into the center of the world doping controversy during the 2006 Tour with "the most daring and astonishing ride anyone could remember ... Just two days after being crowned champion, the Tour de France announced it no longer considered him the winner. The urine samples taken just after his ride into Morzine had tested positive. Rather than return to America as a hero -- like Lance -- Floyd did the perp walk on Leno and Larry King ... Floyd became a punch line."

It's a weird piece, where he says Floyd told him that "Lance doped", and concluding that he thinks Floyd did "it", without being clear what "it" is in question. We can probably assume he won't be getting a Christmas card from the Landis family this year.

The CyclingNews cops its now standard attitude towards Floyd Landis as it too cites yesterday's CAS announcement of next week's six day appeal hearing in New York City.

In later CyclingNews Christian Prudhomme reacts to an open letter to the ASO from Germany which states the obvious, cycling is in great danger..

The VeloNews
says that the CAS hearings for Italian riders Danilo DiLuca and Alessandro Petacchi have been set. DiLuca's hearing will take place March 20, and Petacchi's on April 2.

In more VeloNews Patrik Sinkewitz is quoted as saying he did NOT pass "concrete" evidence on to officials about former T-Mobile teammates. posts a story on steroids in America and wonders who the real dopes are, and how many are out there:

We are a nation looking for enhancement, a way to age gracefully, perform better and longer, and, at the outer edge, vanquish what was once considered that alltime undefeated opponent known as aging. We do that by Botoxing our wrinkles, lifting our faces, reconstructing our noses, despidering our veins, tucking our tummies, augmenting our breasts and taking a little pill to make sure we're ready when, you know, the right time presents itself. We also do it by injecting human growth hormone (HGH) and testosterone, America's new golden pharmaceutical couple

The NY Times reports links between a doctor in California who wrote illegal prescriptions, and several major league baseball players for whom he is alleged to have prescribed PEDs.

The founder of Trek Bicycles, Richard Burke, died Monday from complications of heart surgery in December. Good obits in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, and the AP. TBV still rides his 1983 and '99 road bikes, and the '86 MTB. Mrs. TBV has an '84 road bike and an '85 MTB, all Treks made in Waterloo.

Rant takes note of Floyd Landis' closed door last ditch CAS appeal next week, and he speculates that no matter what the outcome the damage done to Landis' career and reputation can likely never be repaired.

The picture painted by the first round of hearings was decidedly unpleasant. One thing became clear, once the case was turned over by USADA to their outside counsel, the focus was no longer on a search for the truth. It was on winning and losing, and doing whatever it takes to win. Fairness was not a part of the equation, at least not for Richard Young and company. Legal maneuvering was. And, to give the devil his due, Young and his associates in certain instances out-maneuvered Landis’ lawyers.

Je writes that though he has little sympathy for Floyd Landis, he hopes that Landis wins his CAS appeal next week so that the testing standards within WADA labs can be amended.

Max reveals optimistic sentiments about the forthcoming appeal hearing. We won't be placing any bets. As before, we're hoping for a reasoned and convincing decision either way, which we did not get the first time around.

Velo Vortmax
writes "Doubting Dugard", disputing almost everything Martin Dugard has to say about Floyd Landis in his "expose" from OrangeCoast Magazine. This is a good response that will probably go unnoticed in the forthcoming hysteria about the Lance claim.


whareagle said...

We need to post the passing of Richard Burke (Trek Bicycles).

Greg, are you happy now?

snake said...

What's the "attitude" in the Cycling News article ?

It seemed a decent quick read with some essential facts, totally impartial as far as I could tell. If there was an opinion expressed there, it was too subtle for me.

highwheel said...

Who is Greg?

snake said...

Greg, The Dancing Monkey

whareagle said...

The comment makes me want to puke. I distinctly remember getting an earful about a certain company's ethics from a certain 3x TdF champ in the middle of some other tirades last summer.

BannaOj said...

The Orange Coast link by Martin Dugard looks like it is the full article not just a preview.

It is very powerfully written IMO, and worth a read even if you might disagree in the end.

Ali said...

Mr Dugard is entitled to his opinion, just like the rest of us. However, I did get the impression from his article that his role of acquaintance to a famous athlete fills him with an unattractive sense of self-importance (my god, how often do people ask him his opinion ?)

Hey, in my opinion, Floyd didn't do it and nobody's even asking me ! (still, I'm sure Dugard's taken the trouble to investigate and understand all the evidence before forming his much sought after opinion ?)

BannaOj said...

I thought that throwing in Lance was the most interesting bit, myself... and the thing most likely to get him in trouble.

I also think the "it" that he keeps talking about is very vaguely defined and not necessarily germane to the facts of the actual case.

Unknown said...

That Lance quote is what ensures that the story will get picked up by more outlets than just Orange Coast Magazine. I don't know if it was an intentional move, but if it were it sure is a brilliant marketing tactic. Right or wrong, that article will get picked up by a news service and reprinted all over the place on the eve of his hearing.

whareagle said...

I just read the article, and I have to agree with Banna. "It" would be inverse-logic. The "It" would be the accomplishment, not the crime.

And Martin's WAYYY too honest a character and writer who has been covering this for wayyy too long to remain objective. I've read his posts for a long time now, and I don't have any other reason to think otherwise. If he DOES think otherwise, he's even better at the ruse than the other athletes mentioned in the article and in the popular press who proclaim innocence and have never suffered the ignominy Floyd continues to suffer.

If I'm wrong, then Floyd, get out the aluminum bat and do that boy some damage. In the batting cage, of course.

Go get 'em next week, FL. We love & support you.

strbuk said...

Mr Dugard seems to have attained an extremely well developed sense of over inflated self importance, just my opinion.


DBrower said...

The "attitude" in the CyclingNews article is in starting with the word "disgraced". Judgemental, and not necessary.

"Greg" is LeMond, who is believed to have had very rocky relations with the Trek management after he sold his Bike brand to them. It is believed they told him to "shut up" about Lance or be in violation of his contract. That he is now publicly singing praises to Burke after having threatened to sue their behinds off could be seen as a little hypocritical and opportunistic.

Or, St.Greg had the propriety to say something nice when he was called by a reporter who wasn't aware of past friction.


Ali said...

OK, you guys are smarter than me on picking up on the subtleties, but if this is just a clever ploy to propagate his story (and presumably it must be, because he's known that Lance "fact" for some time), does it (the Lance ref) do Floyd any good on the eve of his hearing ?

We've all got different priorities. I guess Mr Dugard's priority is his own career and not the life of one of his "close acquaintances", whom he has shared so many precious moments with (hey, Dugard, did he do it ?)

BannaOj said...

Well here is a previous opinion of Dugard's about Floyd on his blog.

Judge for yourself.

Unknown said...

Oh, damn you whareagle. That's a tantalizing way to re-read that article. And it makes sense too. His conclusion really is somewhat ambiguous.

The Genius said...

Non-partison view: Dugard's piece is a classic internet hit job where anyone can slander anybody for the hell of it. There is no mention of why he believes what he does. Personality? Test results? Conversations? Gut? There is no basis for his opinion.

Here's a tip Dugard: be honest with readers and spare us the sloppy writing and innuendos before piling on a family that once trusted would you like it?

PEM said...

Re: Doubting Floyd by Dugard

A writer such as Dugard is expected to write clearly – without ambiguity. In my opinion, his last statement in the first paragraph clearly defined what “it” is. “It” is “Did Floyd Landis dope to win the 2006 Tour de France?”

I also read Dugard’s articles somewhat regularly in the past, and am surprised that he would elaborate his opinion at this time. Unlike Will’s “call”, this article is a calculated betrayal from someone Landis trusted enough to consider writing his book.

snake said...

Say TBV,

I didn't read "disgraced" as a judgment call in that CyclingNews article. They didn't say *who did* the disgracing, just that it's been done.

We all know it was LNDD and WADA. And would very much like to see the disgrace remedied.

Mike Solberg said...

What Dugard says in his article about Floyd's case is meaningless. It is a personality/human interest piece, nothing more. He says he knows the arguments so well he could repeat them himself, but as far as I know he has never shown in writing that he understands the nuances of the science. In reading his stuff in the past, he has always remained ambivalent about Floyd's guilt, and very general.

Who cares if he thinks Floyd "did it?" He has never shown that he understands why the lack of complete mass spec data makes a difference, or why "eye-balling" is not a scientifically valid way to connect peaks in the GCMS to the IRMS, or why LNDD's pre-IRMS SOP for the T/E ratio test would lead to an IRMS SOP that was not "fit for purpose" (ISO 17025 not withstanding). (Not to mention the possible co-elution of dexamethasone and methylprednisolone.)

So Dugard now thinks he did it. Big whoop. Why Marty? Why do you think that? This is not about Floyd's personality, no matter how close of buddies you are with him. It is about science. Floyd has never asked that it be about anything else.


DBrower said...

This is not about Floyd's personality, no matter how close of buddies you are with him.

Maybe not so close anymore...


GMR said...

USADA lost their chance to convince me of Floyd's guilt when the LNDD retested the original and the alternate B-samples.

"Do you think he did it?"
Not based on LNDD "science".
"Do you think he did it?"
Not based on LNDD equipment.
"Do you think he did it?"
Not based on LNDD documentation.
"Do you think he did it?"
Not based on LNDD testing procedures.
"Do you think he did it?"
Not based on LNDD's application of WADA rules.
"Do you think he did it?"
Not based on the pseudo-scientific political think of AAA arbitrators.
"Do you think he did it?"


Laura Challoner, DVM said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mike Solberg said...

So, next Wednesday the CAS hearing begins and even though it is a closed hearing, some people might actually briefly pay attention to Floyd's case again, especially over the slow news Easter weekend. Which means some new, poorly informed (or worse, misinformed) people will surf the internet looking for information about Landis and they will end up here.

So, assuming a fairly short attention span on the part of most readers, what would you put in a 250 word statement about why you believe Floyd is innocent (or guilty)?

I'll try to write mine by Saturday.


cat2bike said...

The last time MD questioned Floyd's character, pissed me off, and I pretty much stopped reading him last spring.

On the other hand, I have never waivered from my support of Floyd; he's MY hero...and I still have 3 VeloNews covers on my bulletin board at work from '06!! Plus an autograph cover framed, and a picture sent to me from the FFF!


whareagle said...

Idunno - maybe I misread the whole thing. Maybe Martin Dugard is intentionally screwing around. Idunno. Floyd, just keep your head high.

Laura Challoner, DVM said...

Why does Marty insist on a gossip style of writing so much these days? He dishes on people he self proclaims to be his "friends" (Bonnie Ford, Lance, Floyd..... and I doubt ANY of them consider Dugard to be THEIR frind) like he is some modern day Truman Capote, except Capote was also a good writer.

Dugard takes on the persona of an insider with insider knowledge and just when we think we are going to get a journalistic scoop from him, he swerves us instead, choosing to go for a cheap pop instead of presenting a well developed, cohesive and convincing argument.

That style requires the reader to trust him because there is no foundation to support his conclusion. But, why should we trust him, simply because he says what many hope to, want to or even live to hear??? And, when if there are some of us who just want to hear facts or science or anything other than someone's self gratification?

Marty has popped off against some pretty honorable people in the past and he has ended up subsequently retracting some of those things while never actually saying he was sorry for the inaccurate and hurtful things he said.

Give me some meat to chew on and I’ll go for it. Otherwise, Marty, to me, is just another disillusioned bitter guy with an opinion. How the once great have fallen and I’m not talking about Lance or Floyd.

snake said...

so ah ... maybe this isn't the place for it. and it's not a really big deal. but, i gave twice to the fff and never got my signed floyd photo. i even tried emailing them.

what'd you do different cat2bike ?

i mean, if he wins with CAS (as he should), he'll be so busy i doubt i'll ever be able to get one.

oh, and the one worthwhile thing i learned from marty is that "the big lebowski" is floyd's favorite movie. i knew he was a man of taste.

Unknown said...

Snake, I donated once and got two photos. Email me through my website and I'll be happy to share.

Unknown said...

Also, that would be the sciencefictiontwin website, not the other one listed in Blogger's goofy profile thing.

snake said...

Hmmm ... bounced once.

Sigh. Maybe it's just my density.

And I mean that.

Unknown said...

Scott splits with ACE and Frankie Andreu questions the ethics of Scott being hired to advise Landis on the science of his case:

I thought the Scott/ACE split happened a while ago, but perhaps I was just reading rumors/reports of the impending split?

I haven’t given the Frankie thing a lot of thought, but the following springs to mind:
1. As the article indicates, Floyd had the need/right to hire someone to bring him up to speed on the “science”.
2. Getting the best available advice required hiring someone. WADA/USADA/UCI/USAC/rider orgs/team orgs were not lining up to help.
3. It sounds unethical (to me) to suggest denying the accused the means to educate himself about the charges. Frankie would rather Floyd accepted punishment blindly, without legal or scientific advice? Frankie has been known to lawyer up himself. WWFD? (What Would Frankie Do?)
4. It’s refreshing to have Frankie quoted for a change. Betsey usually seems to be the one speaking for him and she has become tiresome.
5. Frankie seems to have trouble maintaining steady employment in jobs related to professional cycling. Many of us “job hop’ these days due to poor employee/employer matches, but Frankie is making it an artform. He might do better going back to school to train for a different career where he might find more enjoyment and be more successful? Just a thought. It is, of course, his call.

Unknown said...

Snake, it's on its way. Your email must have hit my server when it was being testy. But both messages came through.