tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post5632827169769810057..comments2023-10-06T03:21:26.130-07:00Comments on trust but verify: Hearing - Tue: Today's Davis, digestedDBrowerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17718913310467614671noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-20502546738976448582007-05-23T09:07:00.000-07:002007-05-23T09:07:00.000-07:00Goldberger is a Florida cocaine consultant for foo...Goldberger is a Florida cocaine consultant for football. This is a steroid case.<BR/><BR/>Does Landis abuse cocaine and Pot Blege too.<BR/><BR/>Maybe that was why Landis wanted an inexperienced and paid witness to defend his doping crimes?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-52403855049620160102007-05-23T08:36:00.000-07:002007-05-23T08:36:00.000-07:00I cannot find the words to say how completely I ad...I cannot find the words to say how completely I admire and appreciate your coverage of this case, as well as that of Judge Hue and Marc in Paris. I called to ask about submitting this coverage for the Pulitzer Prize, but they will only take submissions associated with a newspaper. The depth, quality, and timeliness of your work surpasses anything any newspaper would ever attempt. I, and I am sure others, will continue to attempt to find a suitable award for this monumental effort on yur part. Once again, thank you.<BR/><BR/>bamalawAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-49464744826855297672007-05-23T08:09:00.000-07:002007-05-23T08:09:00.000-07:00What I find most troubling about the way this has ...What I find most troubling about the way this has played out is the complete and utter abandonment of the scientific portion of the case after the Lemond scandal. USADA has seemingly said, "Ok, forget about the lab, the errors, the untrained workers, the screwed up machines, the railroad job with the repeated l(')e(quippe)aks, the unbreakable WADA Omerta and the un-ending disregard for rules in purported search for the truth." What I hear them now saying is, "Mr. Landis, you wore black and your buddy drank-and-dialed Mr. Lemond, surely you are a doper!"<BR/><BR/>Once the Landis team rolled out Goldberger (with his precise lab philosophy and solicitation from UCLA Lab), Wolfram M-A (he of astute knowledge of Isotopic Applied Science), Dr. Amory (who serves on USADA Review boards and is a leader in the andrologic field) and then Simon Davis (who’s capacity to explain the IRMS method and machines borders scary), USADA has been left with one dog in this fight: attack the character of Mr. Landis.<BR/><BR/>If wearing all black or knowing your manager crank-called Lemond are ISL violations, then I’d like to see the part of the WADA Code where it is specified. Should it turn out that Landis is perceived as a “jerk” as a result of his public attempt to clear his name, I would bet dollars to doughnuts he’d rather be seen as an honest, un-doped jerk, than a nice-guy, huggable cheater. Perhaps that has been the problem in the past with the TH’s and the JA’s and the IB’s.<BR/><BR/>USADA has done itself a disservice by putting on the blinkers and shifting over into the slimy lane. Taking the high-road is a tried and true way to appear honorable. I think if they thought they still had a valid case, we’d see USADA in high-gear, pedal on the floor above the tabloid fodder.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-60348438040380506282007-05-23T07:39:00.000-07:002007-05-23T07:39:00.000-07:00TBV team:Excellent summary! Excellent coverage. Th...TBV team:<BR/><BR/>Excellent summary! Excellent coverage. The Hearing has been a mulitstage race of its own magnitude dealing with science, leagal issues, government agencies and politics. Throw on the "entertainment" layer and there is something for everyone. <BR/><BR/>Thank you for sharing your insights.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-8818349314026334872007-05-23T07:27:00.000-07:002007-05-23T07:27:00.000-07:00TBV,Great job again. I am continualy amazed by how...TBV,<BR/><BR/>Great job again. <BR/><BR/>I am continualy amazed by how bad the WADA Athelet distruction system has been set up. LNDD is a bad apple that must be thrown out, unfortunately it has already spoiled the whole crate. I think the French open taking their testing out of country is a key signal that athletic federations are steping back from LNDD, with good reason. I'm still concerned they will hang floyd by saying the evidience of incompetent work is irrelevent, we suspect Floyd a doper, we have results (forget its flawed, just look at the dancing monkey isn't he cute) that says he's a doper so he must be hung out to dry. regarding USADA and TT saying wait for the hearing before judging, well you had the smoke and mirrors TT. Not to mention you've been siping your own coolaid havent you? USADA has no desire to search for truth as evident by the case and the circus that they brought apon it. I feel bad for any athelete that has to go throug such a corupt system.<BR/><BR/>Atown, Tx.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-47521356530410659172007-05-23T07:18:00.000-07:002007-05-23T07:18:00.000-07:00This is truly sad. LNDD says, he's guilty because ...This is truly sad. <BR/><BR/>LNDD says, he's guilty because we say he is, off with his head!<BR/><BR/>USADA says, evidence, we don't need no stinking evidence.<BR/><BR/>The press says, he has to be guilty because everyone's doing it. Besides he's just a bad guy.<BR/><BR/>The general public, as always doesn't take the time to think, and jumps on board.<BR/><BR/>This is exactly what is wrong with our society today. They are the experts, of course he is guilty. <BR/>They seem to believe that there has never been a lab technician that has ever made a mistake or misused an instrument. It reminds me of the commercial where the patient mixes up the blood samples while in the room. Then they show the doctor telling an 80 year old man and women that they are both pregnant!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-85383478213206774732007-05-23T07:07:00.000-07:002007-05-23T07:07:00.000-07:00Key natural laws that come to mind in this case:1....Key natural laws that come to mind in this case:<BR/><BR/>1. First draw the curves, then plot the data.<BR/>2. If it jams, force it. If it breaks, it needed replacing anyway. <BR/>3. The organization of any bureaucracy is very much like a sceptic tank. The really big chunks always rise to the top.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-84828583581658798512007-05-23T06:47:00.000-07:002007-05-23T06:47:00.000-07:00I, like many, came into all of this hoping that La...I, like many, came into all of this hoping that Landis is innocent, fearing that he might not be, believing that Landis was not getting "due process," however defined in this situation, and therefore simultaneously hoping that he would get off and fearing that doing so on a "technicality" would still leave open the possibility or likelihood of his guilt.<BR/><BR/>But yesterday was truly horrifying. The USADA's cross of Landis demonstrated to me a growing disinterest in focusing on issues germane to whether or not he doped, i.e. the science, and turning to whatever mud they could rake to bring him down. I'm disappointed in the whole LeMond thing (actually, I'm pretty disappointed in LeMond, too), but being an ass, let alone a friend or employer of an ass, doesn't make you a doper.<BR/><BR/>And then Davis' testimony -- of all the science we've heard, the fact that the lab techs simply didn't know how to operate the machinery they needed to use? That they were reconstructing baseline settings each time through, in an effort to get consistent results? In my line of work, that's called fitting the facts to meet your conclusions, whether intentionally or subconsciously (and frankly, we are all susceptible to the latter...). In my book, whether Landis actually doped or not, this is not a technicality, this is evidence that there simply is no evidence, because none was ever produced.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-8065629078955723522007-05-23T06:15:00.000-07:002007-05-23T06:15:00.000-07:00Trislax here: First, great job TBV! Next, a pr...Trislax here:<BR/> First, great job TBV! <BR/> Next, a prediction that others have alluded to (or outright said) that I will repeat: The train station that we seem to be pulling in to is the "hang LNDD out to dry" station, where USADA concedes mistakes by the lab such that they cannot uphold sanctions, thereby keeping face while lambasting a poorly run WADA lab. Everyone wins. USADA can claim that their hands were tied by the shoddy work, WADA gets to clean house as LNDD, Landis gets off on a technicality, but gets off and takes a major hit in PR, which is why they crossed so personally yesterday (ruin his rep if you can't sanction). *sigh* Just my suspcions that a 2-1 for Landis, with appeal that will get upheald, but Landis loses in the long run through PR and suspicion, and WADA and USADA win by claiming poor labwork led to the technicality.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-63461210751488440602007-05-23T05:20:00.000-07:002007-05-23T05:20:00.000-07:00you3 said...TBV,Your coverage (and Bill's) of the ...you3 said...<BR/>TBV,<BR/><BR/>Your coverage (and Bill's) of the hearing has been better than any than any of us could have hoped for. You are responsible for making this a truely public hearing.<BR/><BR/>If Davis gets to demonstrate that by picking other reasonable baseline adjustment points and integratoin points for 5A-diol, the new dC13 measurement of 5A-diol is below the threshold of a positive finding, then the hearing pannel will find no comfort in the USADA arguments. Let's hope that such a demonstration is allowed today.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-75739890771901501872007-05-23T04:32:00.000-07:002007-05-23T04:32:00.000-07:00TBV:If this is the kind of summary you provide on ...TBV:<BR/><BR/>If this is the kind of summary you provide on a voluntary basis, what kind of detail do you put into your work if you were paid? <BR/><BR/>Do you know how to manage? Someone may be looking for a new manager soon.<BR/><BR/>Here's an early acknowledgement to you and the others on the excellent work that is being put into this blog, informing, educating and entertaining those that are truly interested, open minded, and believe in innocence until proven otherwise.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-44452197451456325932007-05-23T01:06:00.000-07:002007-05-23T01:06:00.000-07:00Wonderful summary; it cleared up some things for m...Wonderful summary; it cleared up some things for me and provided clear corrections to a couple items I had gotten wrong on the fly during the day.<BR/><BR/>All of you have done work well above and beyond what could be expected of any (even obsessed) volunteer. I will be sincerely surprised if this is not noted in some history of the media impact of the internet. If there aren't any awards, then there should be.<BR/><BR/>I await tomorrow with a decent dose of tension - will Davis get to do his demonstration? Will Landis attempt to press a vote on the shift of the burden at the close of his case? Will an effort be made to clarify Bostre's role in deliberations? What games will be played with the clock and if the day runs out before closings, how long will we have to wait for them?<BR/><BR/>The circus train is rolling toward the station and there may be surprises in store. Not the least of which may be that Wed slides slowly to an end without any fireworks, monkeys, blind squirrels or admissions of personal tragedies. An aside for Bill: Although I grew up in upstate New York I picked up a variation on your phrase, probably in the military: even a blind pig finds the occasional acorn.<BR/><BR/>Thank you<BR/>PcrosbyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-84321450937917004992007-05-23T00:30:00.000-07:002007-05-23T00:30:00.000-07:00For his cross if Mr. Davis can take a cue from Dr....For his cross if Mr. Davis can take a cue from Dr. M-A, and learn to say "My Dear Friend" in just the right tone of voice, I think it is all over for the USADA.<BR/><BR/>-wdsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-52669510340680594602007-05-23T00:12:00.000-07:002007-05-23T00:12:00.000-07:00You MUST be acknowledged for this fantastic work, ...You MUST be acknowledged for this fantastic work, under time and pressure. Are there Blog Oscars?? When do you start making the big money? I think Judge Hue has groupies (I'm one of them!) rather he 's ready or not! strbuk and Marc have done a great job of holding down the fort, and should not be left out of the praise!! AWESOME WORK!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-27262454218827611382007-05-22T23:48:00.000-07:002007-05-22T23:48:00.000-07:00That's an awsome analysis. There should be a Puli...That's an awsome analysis. There should be a Pulitzer for this.<BR/><BR/>-SkipAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-22443997945705075382007-05-22T23:00:00.000-07:002007-05-22T23:00:00.000-07:00Wow, TBV, that's thorough. Don't you ever sleep? ...Wow, TBV, that's thorough. Don't you ever sleep? Thanks for your work. Just a little longer!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-87674084848009209212007-05-22T22:50:00.000-07:002007-05-22T22:50:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Bijoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238815260798331123noreply@blogger.com