tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post363134975417030326..comments2023-10-06T03:21:26.130-07:00Comments on trust but verify: Hearing - Mon WrapupDBrowerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17718913310467614671noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-24899456942709999742007-05-22T03:34:00.000-07:002007-05-22T03:34:00.000-07:00I also loved the Muppet Labs reference. I was goin...I also loved the Muppet Labs reference. I was going to use it for my BikeBiz.com story but thought it a mite flippant for re-use, mainly because I want site readers to focus on the science not the asides.<BR/><BR/>Over here in the UK, the story is getting scant coverage in the mainstream press, and when there is coverage it's salicious or wrong or both.<BR/><BR/>I notice Cyclingnews.com is getting more balanced of late. Whatever next? If Floyd wins there are going to be an awful lot of bike journos eating their helmets.<BR/><BR/>And as for Dick Pound I expect he's already sharpening the sword to fall on. Not. Mind you, his comments about Harleys, Nazi frogmen and virgins may just come to haunt his final days in office. Good.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-23631927593689225622007-05-21T23:23:00.000-07:002007-05-21T23:23:00.000-07:00"Reincarnation of Muppet Labratories"!!! That mig..."Reincarnation of Muppet Labratories"!!! That might be the funniest comment of this whole train wreck. That, my fried, is pure blogging genius.<BR/><BR/>I just imagine Dr. Bunsun Honeydew forcing his assistant Beaker to hold a test tube of urine while pointing a laser at it... "Yes, yes, there it is, Urea! I found it!"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-64116376328232905572007-05-21T23:09:00.000-07:002007-05-21T23:09:00.000-07:00Where did all these people come from Bill and TBV?...Where did all these people come from Bill and TBV?? This was a very civil site to get information, and read intelligent comments. Are they here just to get they jollies? Will and Greg LeMond have nothing to do with the science. Period. That's what this hearing is about, even tho USADA is pretending otherwise.<BR/><BR/>Plus I just heard a report on the BBC America, that was just as biased as some of these comments!! If the mainstream news is spending all their time watching the dancing monkeys; then no wonder some people are not using their common sense.<BR/><BR/>Okay, I'm done today, you anonymously can bash whatever I said. It doesn't change the truth!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-18210788919983232862007-05-21T20:59:00.000-07:002007-05-21T20:59:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-53697417409521695462007-05-21T20:38:00.000-07:002007-05-21T20:38:00.000-07:00Floyd has already won, by allowing all to see the ...Floyd has already won, by allowing all to see the house of cards that supports the WADA/ASUDA. The shoddy science, the sloppy labs, the arrogant scientists who are worse than any doping athlete since they never lose (by their own admission), and are paid millions to support the inquisition of hypocrisy by a group of pretenders who negotiated with MLB and admitted doper Barry Bonds to avoid this type of exposure. <BR/><BR/>Would you or anyone else you know have the drive, the persistence and the resources to take on the unwinnable war like FL is doing, in the public eye, in a lopsided kangaroo court?<BR/><BR/>There is a new sherrif in town, and he wears a yellow tie.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-29430079825751233762007-05-21T20:15:00.000-07:002007-05-21T20:15:00.000-07:00dragon,I think you might be on to something. ?My p...dragon,<BR/>I think you might be on to something. ?My posts hint at that too. If it shook out that way i'll remeber your post.<BR/>BillLaura Challoner, DVMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00606828463436614790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-17314696272171367922007-05-21T20:14:00.000-07:002007-05-21T20:14:00.000-07:00On a more serious note, the good Herr Doktor shoul...On a more serious note, the good Herr Doktor should be renamed Comic Book Guy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-19855342503792361552007-05-21T19:58:00.000-07:002007-05-21T19:58:00.000-07:00Did anyone get a look to see if the testimony was ...Did anyone get a look to see if the testimony was hitting home to Dr. Botre today -- the "fourth" panel member?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-58502072515707034922007-05-21T19:55:00.000-07:002007-05-21T19:55:00.000-07:00prima-facie mean a lot more than you would think w...prima-facie mean a lot more than you would think when it comes out of a judges keyboard:<BR/><BR/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prima_facie<BR/><BR/>Essentially in a legal sense (someone correct me if I am wrong) prima-facie means that the good Doktors testimony alone, if not effectually rebutted by the prosecution, proves that an ISL violation occurred and no other corroborating evidence would be necessary to prove this fact.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-35882645283099986382007-05-21T19:47:00.000-07:002007-05-21T19:47:00.000-07:00Eight straight years TDF won by an American, is th...Eight straight years TDF won by an American, is that too much for a French Lab to bear? When will it stop? <BR/><BR/>Again, given the mistakes of the Lab and it's unilateral interpretation of its own data, would you give half down to someone to paint your house with those flimsy credentials. <BR/><BR/>If cycling is to be clean, we'd better start with an unbiased lab that is above reproach and who's conclusion can be verified by a roulette wheel landing of warranted labs. <BR/><BR/>These athletes give their all, they don't need a lab technician throwing their best efforts to error. It happens in all major cases around the world. <BR/><BR/>Let's step up to a new generation of lab work, absolutlely independent and verified.<BR/><BR/>Of course this is the TDF and I guess the organizers can choose which lab they want perhaps, but I can also drop my attention to their thuggery of the athletes and go play tennis. <BR/><BR/>Service!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-35219403037817026642007-05-21T19:44:00.000-07:002007-05-21T19:44:00.000-07:00Bill,I have had this idea running around in my hea...Bill,<BR/><BR/>I have had this idea running around in my head for awhile, maybe it is the Pollyanna in me.<BR/><BR/>Before the jointly observed testing (or whatever exactly it was) in Paris, I sent a less than kind e-mail to USADA, castigating Dick Pound and LNDD. I got a response from Travis, and we corresponded through a couple of e-mails, although they tended to focus on Dick Pound (Travis did not seem to hold him in very high regard). He asked me to keep an open mind.<BR/><BR/>On several occasions in the interim, I have tried to compose a civil e-mail to Travis and have not succeeded.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, the more I try to evaluate this Trial, without the Will gift, and some mud slinging though G Lamond, it seems to me that USADA has not gone very far to prop up LNDD.<BR/><BR/>Somewhere in the back of my mind, they will do their best Lawering, to win, yet would not cry over seeing LNDD (and by extention Dick Pound) take a hit. I think someone else, maybe yourself had a similar notion.<BR/><BR/>Am I crazy? On second thought don't answer that specifically :-)<BR/><BR/>Regards,Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-15313295372039625182007-05-21T19:41:00.000-07:002007-05-21T19:41:00.000-07:00Bill, I appreciate you taking the time to respond ...Bill, I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my questions tonight. Your insight is valuable and much appreciated.<BR/><BR/>And you should be proud - most of us trudge anonymously through life (and blogs as well lol). You have managed to aquire a gen-u-ine internet stalker. How many of us can say that!<BR/><BR/>As for me, it's off to bed so I can get a good internet seat at the hearings tomorrow :-) Look forward to chatting with you again Tuesday.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-13667080550030686212007-05-21T19:40:00.000-07:002007-05-21T19:40:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-18534776444287470872007-05-21T19:39:00.000-07:002007-05-21T19:39:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-32142506689801695962007-05-21T19:36:00.001-07:002007-05-21T19:36:00.001-07:00anon 7:12 Thanks for your comments. It is a beauti...anon 7:12 <BR/>Thanks for your comments. It is a beautiful sport. It you get a chance, catch the Giro as some relief from this case.<BR/>And thanks for the tip on the nitwit. TBV is taking care of him but he's also at other sites as well. he isn't threatening, just annoying.<BR/>BillLaura Challoner, DVMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00606828463436614790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-2825149114017366052007-05-21T19:36:00.000-07:002007-05-21T19:36:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-28864266141019206782007-05-21T19:21:00.000-07:002007-05-21T19:21:00.000-07:00Anon 6:07,Our beliefs however strong do not, in my...Anon 6:07,<BR/><BR/>Our beliefs however strong do not, in my opinion, give us the authority to convict by any means necessary. Have we stopped to fully grasp the ramifications of a conviction based upon the mantra of the masses, “everyone is doing it”? What might Le Bon say about our cries for blood? <BR/><BR/>Should we fail this test then we have in essence endorsed totalitarianism.<BR/> <BR/>-ptAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-64068506298204332422007-05-21T19:20:00.000-07:002007-05-21T19:20:00.000-07:00Bill's last post would seem to favor Landis' side ...Bill's last post would seem to favor Landis' side then. The old "we made no mistakes and the mistakes we made are not important" argument doesn't hold up very well, even arguing over the wall to the next cubicle. Floyd can continue his present course of striking everywhere, and USADA has a bit of a tightrope to walk. To argue a mistake made no difference means you have to admit the mistake first. If the burden turns, it would seem USADA has little to back up their new position.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-698644099654873992007-05-21T19:19:00.001-07:002007-05-21T19:19:00.001-07:00The difference between today and Saturday is what ...The difference between today and Saturday is what you see when your side gets to put in the evidence. when the prosecution puts in their cae it looks like curtains. Then the defense you wonder why you ever thought that the prosecutions witnesses were even worth listening to. Herr Dr. M. A. read as one of the best experts a person can want. where the best cross would have been "no questions" You do not want to cross a witness who is so much smarter then you and in his answers offers to help you understand the issues. The "divivne internvention" quote alone was worth what ever he was paid. I still believe that you are going to see a panel relying on their Wada supplied expert to come down in favor of USADA 2-1. It is a show trial and USADA will win but everyone wondering why. It will be affirmed on appeal and their unbroken record of wins will remain intact. However those of us who actually care will know see the flawed system and they will try and correct it but landis will be the sacrificial lamb.Dannyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03389431465486567030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-80100150622874681922007-05-21T19:19:00.000-07:002007-05-21T19:19:00.000-07:00Can anyone tell me when today's On-demand hearings...Can anyone tell me when today's On-demand hearings will be posted?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-88374937174528888432007-05-21T19:12:00.000-07:002007-05-21T19:12:00.000-07:00Bill,First time comment for me here. Awesome job ...Bill,<BR/><BR/>First time comment for me here. Awesome job covering and commenting. Thanks very much.<BR/><BR/>On the troll-less days here, the whole community co-creates a high level of integrity and intelligent give-and-take. A great place to visit.<BR/><BR/>Since your stalker can be traced and identified via IP address, has slander been sufficiently documented? I'll understand if you decide to keep your own counsel on the matter, of course.<BR/><BR/>As for me, I have been and continue to be a believer. I believe the AD system is broken on many levels, and must be fixed before it ruins any more people or sports. I just can't watch cycling any more, having witnessed the sad, ethically-challenged circus of the last year.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-8257508585755961662007-05-21T19:11:00.000-07:002007-05-21T19:11:00.000-07:00Anon 7:00That is a question we talked about quite ...Anon 7:00<BR/>That is a question we talked about quite a bit. I originally thought that the complex "burden turn" system in the WADA Code would be used to terminate hearings at certain points. But i think it is a process the arbitrators will go through to stop or continue their fact finding in deliberation. That won't effect the evidence. USADA will not just assume they won. They will put on evidence in rebuttal just in case.Laura Challoner, DVMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00606828463436614790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-24779211326744800522007-05-21T19:00:00.000-07:002007-05-21T19:00:00.000-07:00Back to Bill again - wheat from chaff, you know :-...Back to Bill again - wheat from chaff, you know :-)<BR/><BR/>If the panel thinks there are ISL violations, do they let USADA know that before the hearing is over? USADA to this point hasn't admitted any significant errors. Does USADA start operating at least partly on the premise that such a thing might occur and start trying to show that such errors didn't cause the finding, or do they stumble along their current path of "everything is fine despite the fact that it isn't" tactic?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-25578054211689864962007-05-21T18:56:00.000-07:002007-05-21T18:56:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31819641.post-72738415614743737012007-05-21T18:47:00.000-07:002007-05-21T18:47:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com